Source : 'Expresso' newspaper
Date : 30 May 1998
Dateline : Lisbon
Byline : Tony Jenkins
Original Language : Portuguese
Headline : "WE ARE NOT IN A HURRY" : XANANA GUSMAO
With the taste of freedom almost at his lips, Xanana Gusmao gave a long interview this week to Tony Jenkins for the Expresso newspaper, within the walls of Jakarta's Cipinang prison. He seemed to be readying himself for the role he has long awaited - that of President of a finally free East Timor. In contrast with the other prisoners, in their T-shirts and sandals, Xanana Gusmao emerged looking like a bank manager in shirt and tie, black trousers, black suede shoes, and with carefully groomed hair and beard. In spite of his excellent humour and permanent smile, he was extremely cautious in the statements he made. While determined to pursue his objective of independence for East Timor, he did not want to appear to be exploiting or exacerbating the tensions now affecting the fourth most populous country in the world.
Expresso: The leader of the first free Indonesian trade union, Muchtar Pakpahan, who was imprisoned here with you for two years until his release last Tuesday, told me that if you were not released within the next three months, he would organise demonstrations in Jakarta by (Indonesian) workers to demand your release. Do you think 3 months a reasonable time scale for your release?
Xanana Gusmao: I have no idea when I am to be released. Three months does seem reasonable. We appreciate the solidarity expressed by Pakpahan and the workers, but this is not just about me. The issue is not about one person alone. All political prisoners should be released and, above all else, the people of East Timor must be given their freedom. We are not, however, anxiously impatient. We have been waiting now for 24 years, and we can wait a little longer. We are not in a hurry. We realise that this country (Indonesia) has to sort itself out first.
Expresso: Not all the democratic forces in Indonesia are in favour of your release, or the liberation of East Timor. For example, Elim Salim, one of Indonesia's three main opposition leaders, told the Expresso yesterday that neither is he convinced that you ought to be released, nor that you should be treated as a political prisoner (as opposed to a common criminal). He is not even sure that East Timor ought to be considered a special case. Are you worried by this kind of viewpoint?
Xanana Gusmao: He is not the only voice in Indonesia. There are many other voices here that will influence public opinion. For example, Amien Rais (an important Moslem political leader) and Gus Dur (leader of a 20-million strong Islamic organisation) have expressed their support for us, and both of them wield a great deal of influence. I am certain that once we have a chance to state our case, all true democrats will understand our position.
Expresso: Indonesian military leaders seem to fear that separatist movements in other parts of the country (for example, Irian Jaya and Aceh) would be encouraged if East Timor were to gain its independence and are, for that reason, opposed to your release and independence for East Timor. Do these nationalistic views concern you?
Xanana Gusmao: Of course they do. The ABRI (Indonesian Armed Forces) try to limit such movements, and always oppose any progress made in this respect. However, they cannot prevent East Timor from being on the UN's agenda. Neither can they stop the UN from repeating that what happened in East Timor was a violation of our rights. We believe that the changing situation in Indonesia will lead to greater tolerance. They must understand that we have never hated Indonesia, but that Irian Jaya and Aceh are their problems, not ours.
Expresso: When are you going to start pressing for the East Timor problem to be resolved?
Xanana Gusmao: We are not going to press immediately for a referendum. We do not want to force Indonesia into anything at such a difficult time. We do, however, want to establish dialogue now. We have always believed that dialogue is the best way to resolve the problem.
Expresso: Some eminent Indonesians are now suggesting that the way to deal with the issue is to alter the Constitution and form a new federal democracy, a decentralised State in which East Timor could have greater autonomy. Would you be interested in such a solution?
Xanana Gusmao: Not in the slightest. They are not offering us anything. What they have to do is give us the chance to freely exercise our right to self-determination, and to respect the decision of the Timorese people. Perhaps, in the long term (say in 30 or 50 years time), we might consider the idea of membership of an Asian community (of which Indonesia might also be a member), along the lines of the European Union - a political and economic community in which we could preserve our own cultural and political identity. However, I am talking about a possible future strategy.
Expresso: Mario Carrascalao, the former Governor of East Timor, told me that he will be lobbying for the holding of a referendum in East Timor, but that when the campaigning begins, he will supporting the integration option because he does not believe that East Timor can survive economically on its own. What do you think of that?
Xanana Gusmao: I am not worried. We are of the same mind with regards the overriding priority - to have the right to freely express ourselves as a people. If he then wants to support integration, then he is democratically entitled to do so - in fact, that is precisely what the spirit of the referendum is all about. That is what we are looking for - open debate - and we are not going to become enemies over it.
Expresso: Do you think that Portugal and the EU are morally obliged to provide economic assistance to East Timor, in order to make independence more viable?
Xanana Gusmao: It will not be necessary. It is enough that they defend our right to choose our own future. Mario Carrascalao is well-intentioned and I understand his viewpoint, but we are certain that, once we are independent, not a single Timorese person will die of hunger.
Expresso: How do you see the situation in East Timor at present?
Xanana Gusmao: Military operations against our guerrillas have intensified. They were intensifying even before the crisis hatched, and continue to do so now. People are still being killed and there are reports of arrests, although I do not know the exact numbers.
Expresso: As a condition to your release, will you be pressing for a halt to military operations or for a reduced deployment of ABRI in East Timor?
Xanana Gusmao: No. But the suspension of military operations and a reduction of Indonesia´s forces in East Timor would be proof of Jakarta's sincerity in seeking a settlement to the problem and, after my release, I shall bring pressure to bear to achieve just that. The UN will have to be involved and, of course, the UN should be mandated to intervene more actively in East Timor. I should point out that, in the past, Indonesia has promised to reduce the numbers of its troops, but then did not put its words into action. The matter should, therefore, be reopened.
Expresso: What should Portugal do now?
Xanana Gusmao: Portugal should immediately start calling for the resumption of the UN-sponsored talks with Indonesia, and for the representatives of East Timor to have a place at the negotiations table, alongside the representatives of Portugal and Indonesia.
Expresso: The majority of the students who demonstrate nowadays were born after the invasion. They never knew Indonesia without its 27th province, called Timor-Timur. Are you worried that they might not understand or support the right to self-determination?
Xanana Gusmao: No. I am certain that we will have the opportunity to explain the situation to them. Up until now, the only side of the story they have heard has been the "sacred" version of the (Indonesian) government. However, in the context of the new free press in Indonesia, we will now be able to tell our side of the story.
Expresso: What message do you want to send the Timorese people?
Xanana Gusmao: My message is for them to be patient and to keep calm. Being patient does not, however, mean being silent. But if we start shouting now, no one will hear us. We are going to wait for the right moment so that, when we do shout, they can hear us.
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